A community which was once chased out by the police, who were boycotted  even by the villagers, let us know, why the present day district administration are calling them and asking for help during corona virus pandemic. Who are these 20 youths who are not only teaching the children of their own community but also helping the entire district in one hand and continuing their education on the other?
This interview will enlighten its readers about the current crisis in Indian economy and remedies. It will also shed a light upon bigger issues like Democracy, Equality  and  issues like, how an organisation should be operated, how youths could be in leadership position, how should we act when government policies are not reaching to the target audience, what should be our actions if PDS or ICDS is failing. How can addiction be prevented or migration could be stopped completely. This interview is of Prasant Rakshit, who lives in Purulia district of West Bengal and works for Sabars.
•  Can you tell something about the history of the community?
The name of this community is Kheriya Sabar. This is a forest community, which falls in Denotified Nomadic Tribe category. This tribe use to fall under the Criminal Tribes Act of 1871 in the name of Habitual Offenders, who could commit robbery and are Born Criminals. When this act was amended in 1952 they had been termed as denotified tribes. This community use to live in Chotanagpur forest area which was under the state of Bihar and new in West Bengal. These people were dependent on the forest as the area lacks cultivable land.  You will see that in India, forest communities live in small groups. They eat whatever the forest provides, they live nearby of it, goes hunting and sell products procured from the forest. So deforestation is a problem for them.
• When did this Deforestation start?
The problem started after Nehruji nationalised the forests in 1957. Before that forests were private property like any land. The people belonged to the Landlord, soon after nationalisation was done almost all big trees were cut. At that time India had one of the highest deforestation rates among its peers.
• But the nationalisation was done for the protection of the forest, right?
It took four years to implement it in grounds. They declared it in 1957. Four years are enough to cut down forest without leaving any trace of it. Whether any case was lodged or not or what happened, there is no record of it. After four years, the forest department officials came and asked Sabars to leave the forest as it was now government property. So you know what happened afterwards, the trees were in the custody of state government and the land belonged to the Government of India. That’s why there was huge amount of deforestation. If you look at the history of India, after any forest law was enacted large scale deforestation took place. In totality it happened for three to four times.
 • And when was it?
The Forest Act was enacted in 1904.The British created the forest department so that  they could extract the forest resources and put it in business   
Whatever the British did for the Empire, they did it legally.
When the forest department was throwing out the Sabars from the forest, these people formed their own group, naming it Paschimbanga Kheriya Sabar Kalyan Samiti. At that time it was in Bihar, so it may be intriguing that why its name starts with West   Bengal, that is because though it was formed in 1968 but in November 1952 it moved to West Bengal. Our founder was Gopi Ballabh Singh Deo who hailed from the local royal family. The family owned the forest as a private property for decades and thus had relationship with the tribes. Jungle had business at that time. Leaf was collected from the woods and sold.
On one hand there was stigma of thief from the British and on the other forest department. Whenever there was a theft or robbery, they use to catch Sabar people without an inquiry; so on these two problems that is stigma of a being a perennial criminal and rights over forest, this organisation started its journey to find a solution of them.
• How did people participate in it?
At first, they were unknown to each other. So to introduce them we started branch festival like a small fair. There was mahua and we use to sing together and discuss about our identity, about our future and where should we go? If we do not stand as one, forest department officials will never listen to us individually. Only if we stand united our organisation will be strong and we will be able to do something. We decided that we will cultivate with our labour in forest area but that area should be devoid of trees.
It came to our mind that due to the provisions of Chotanagpur Tenancy Act which was in force when we were in Bihar, if we cultivate vacant land then ownership will be given to the Sabars and not even the government will be able to remove them. So as I said, we have just arrived in Bengal, before this we were in Bihar. So where shall we go next?  This was the question for Sabar community, one day we are in Bihar another day in Bengal so we utilised the provisions of this Act. Wherever forest department officials use to come ten people from the village under the supervision of the organisation use to stand and speak to them. Currently the Chotanagpur Tenancy Act is valid but it was not in force in Bengal when we came. That place is now part of Jharkhand. So we were telling the administration that only 10 years ago we were not in Bengal and now we are, so please implement this Act. There was a good district collector at that time. Our founder and two to three people went to the D.M. and asked him to atleast not to remove the Sabars  as we don’t have  proper documents. We got the documents in 2006 when the Forest Rights Act was implemented.
•  You mean to say that you got papers after 50 years?
If you see the movement of forest rights in India, it is same everywhere.
• How did this movement, the organisation last for 40 to 50 years? Are old people still there? 
Only one of the founding members is living, he is currently 90 years old. He walks feebly. The third generation is running this organisation. Even when we were trying to get land through forest rights, the forest department denied that. They have their own reasons for it. If the forest area decreases so does the yearly funds from the government. But we were also determined to get that, though we could not get all the documents but with some in hand we occupied the land and started cultivating it and as time passed we got Indira  Awas for someone, we got benefits of Nijo Bhoomi Nijo Bas and then Gitanjali Awas Yojana. We have maximum houses under the last two schemes promoted by the state government. We have it in every block.
• How many blocks are there?
Purulia district comprises of 20 blocks but Sabar population is in 8 blocks.
• And how much is their population?
Their population is around 12000 comprising of 2540 families. Today Sabar lives in 164 villages in eight blocks. They have hamlets now. Two families together hold a hamlet. These people mostly live in isolation away from the village.
• Do they prefer to study outside or the villagers do not allow them here?
There are two reasons behind it. One is that they use to live in forests for centuries so they cannot mingle with villagers and second is that the customs of mainstream society do not match with them. Also there is a superiority complex among villagers and inferiority in Sabars. So villagers prevent Sabars and also Sabars are reluctant to go.
• What are the differences in customs?
Our tribal people have very different customs from the caste Hindu society. People worship nature, mountain, river forests even lightning.
• In many places I have seen that nomadic tribes also eat pigs. 
Sabars eat everything like Snakes, Pigs, Cows, Goats, Fish and everything.
• So, people also stay from them because of this food habits, because of Hindu-Muslim customs?
Yes, this is also a reason.
• Do they come inside ST fold? 
Yes, but for that they must call themselves as Hindus. Nowadays one has to write in the paper with limited options; either you are a Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist. A tribal cannot write that he is a tribal. It is also a politics of mainstream. It is a politics that religion will be Hindu but they were never Hindus by their customs, everything was different. New Year of Bengalis is on 14th April but for Sabars is on14th January.
• I am from Bihar both are Sankranti for us. We eat sattu in one, curd in the other.
These people eat chicken with rice. We fill Besan with Sattu. These people fill the chicken. It is like chicken momo. But first they worship the chicken. Then they will cut it and mix it with flour. Now they will make it again like a potato paratha. 
• So, all 12000 people have the documents now?
No, all documents are not made of every Sabar. Many of Sabars don’t have Aadhar card. Many people are not getting declared benefit in this corona virus pandemic situation. The tribals are not getting pension after 60 years. Now due to the special drive initiated by the administration many officials are coming like the B.D.O came today.
Our District Collector looks at us very differently. He listens to all of our demands and we are also building a relationship with the district administration. He is personally visiting villages enquiring about ration cards. Many of them do have Aadhar cards but if there are no rations cards relief is not available from the government. The D.M. is arranging some relief for us and we are distributing it. Those who have no documents are approaching to our volunteers and we are providing rice, pulses and potatoes. 
• So you are not getting any help either from the state government or the central government? Only this collector is listening to you and helping?
No, the state government is giving free rice and pulses from the PDS. Few ladies have received Rs. 500 in their Jan Dhan Account, but very few. Many women do not have Jan Dhan account.
The state government backed PDS system provides 2 kg of rice and 2 kg of flour. It has been made free for everyone, it is available also without ration card, and this is given with the help of a coupon. By September, it will be available to that person and on the basis of that ration card will again be made and this coupon will be at the top of the card.
• What is the name of the collector?
Rahul Majumdar and there is also an A.D.M, his name is Mufti Samim Sawkat. He is a Mohammedan and works really well.
• What is your organisation doing? 
We run schools in every village. It is not like a government school. We have a study centre in every village, it stays away from the mainstream education system. There is a Volunteer who will likely be from the community. For example, a boy is educated till 11th standard, we ask him to teach a child of his community for few hours in the morning and we will give him 2000 rupees a month which will cover his educational expenses. They have to get admitted in the school by 1st January.
These youths are mostly drop outs. They don’t like the education system of schools. They have inferiority complex. Just like the government schools, our schools are also free of cost till 10th standard. But it was not always free. Some Sabars don’t prefer  to study. Most drop outs choose to become a labour at the tender age of 15, 16 or 18. Currently they are migrating to Kerala or Gujarat or becoming construction labour in Delhi if not then they go to nearby Brick factory and work as an unskilled labour. Nowadays some of them go to paddy fields too like in Bardhaman.
• How many volunteers do you have?
We had 43 volunteers when we started our non formal education. Now we get funds from donation, so the students who studied till 10th or 11th   standard are preparing for 12th standard examination. We are planning to make it regular so that they will read regularly and in return the children of the village will also study.
• Are all of them from the Sabar community?
Sabars were 28 before, now they are 43 out of 75. Today there are 54 volunteers out of which 34 are Sabars. There are four Mahatos and two from Santhal community but everyone is either from the village or from nearby area. We have two criteria for selection, first is their qualification and second is that they have to believe that Sabars are humans not a thief or robber. That is why villagers do the selection, the organisation does not select. Whether they will be our teacher or volunteer or may be just a friend only the village decides. The villager knows who will be best for them. Suppose if we want to lodge a complaint, the volunteer must not shy away from lodging it even if that is against his own caste or community. We only induct those who will fight for us.
The community lives around 4 km to 90 km radius of the office of the organisation. So how can we communicate with them? If the volunteer is not local how can we communicate so far? We can only visit three to four times a year.
• Are these people who are distributing aid are also teachers?
We have got these packets from Spencer. We took the permission from the D.M. and police was all along in this endeavour as we wanted them to be with us. There was no label attached with these relief materials. Everyone is saying that this is provided by administration but they know the reality. This is done just to cooperate with the administration. 
• Are these 20 people doing relief work?
Look, relief is a matter of a few days, what we want is a permanent solution. When the corona pandemic will be over no one will be able to provide them regular aid. It is impossible to provide aid to 2450 families at a regular basis. Only with the development work like MGNREGA can give them a permanent solution which is like receiving pension.
We are talking with the D.M., about how can a 60 year old Sabar have tribal certificate. By rule, if a tribal is 60 years old, he gets 1000 rupees per month as Old Age Pension  but for that he must produce tribal certificate. As of now no one has it. They never needed it. So we spoke to the D.M. on the basis of declaration made by a Sabar for Aadhar or ration card, let him get the tribal status and through B.D.O.  Tribal certificates should be issued so that these old Sabars can draw pension. The D.M. agreed to it and dicussed it with a secretary in the state government and got the necessary approval. Now the B.D.O. will work with us.
We are also asking for labour card. These people go out as construction labours and get cheated. They don’t get wages sometimes. We once brought a boy back from Delhi. He was held captive there. Agents took their money, sometimes they took it in advance and the Sabar has to work for 16 hours instead of 8 hours. There was construction work going on, in a campus and few Sabars were held there for three years. We just lodged a complaint and S.P. Sahib of Purulia helped us a lot and got our people back by contacting Delhi Police.
• Anyone got enrolled in NREGA? 
The work just started from 21st of this month. At first the work got stopped. Sabar has another problem that if they work they want the money in hand. That does not happen for NREGA.
• Right now if you are doing so much work in giving relief materials, then you must have a different status among the villagers, your image must be good.   
Yes, people from society have earned a good name. We have sent some of our boys to the Sports Authority of India. Out of 35, 2 got into higher level. Gopal became a coach in Sabar Archery, he is currently working as coach in Siliguri under S.A.I. The Police also appointed him as their archery coach so now he is training them. This community also has gift of handicrafts.
• What do the Sabars make?
They make a lot of baskets from the date palm. There is glass from inside the poles and outside it remains date palm leaves. So the Sabars have great respect in the society. Even 20 years ago, 30-40 Sabars use to die by lynching every year. They use to blame them as robbers and killed them but this has changed, not a single such incident reported in the last seven years. There is also a change in Sabar community too, not that everyone was lying. Some Sabars used to commit crime too .
• What are the reasons that they use to commit crime and what measures you took so that they stop doing it?
We use to counsel them. We told them that if you commit crime there will be police, court for your whole life and lawyer will drain all your money. Then we created alternative livelihoods, such as goat rearing. So we use to give them 5 female goats and a single male goat. If you rear it well for one year then it will become 16 to 17. This also halted their night activities that are indulgence in liquor and theft.
• Goat rearing was a separate responsibility other than feeding- from where did the money come from for one year?
Yes, it is correct that they will not get any money for a year, so we use to provide them money for a year and ask them to do farming, grow vegetables, and cultivate the kitchen gardens. We use to involve them in various works; they knew that we are watching over them. Then we also initiated a night program, opening of Adult Literacy Centre in 105 Sabar tolas. There was nothing to teach but just to enjoy the local culture with dance and music, there were old people sharing stories about their struggles. After regular meeting at night, we use to know who the regular ones are. We also provided traditional equipment to them
• What are the traditional equipment?     
Nagada dhol, Madhol, Damsa and Shehnai, that chhote wali Shehnai. Some change could be visible like some boys learned Casio from outsiders, they brought their own drum set formed their own band and performed in marriages, by which they earned a lot. This whole idea was their own. We had no role in it.
• How do girls and women participate in this whole process?
In Sabar Community there are equal rights of a woman. There is no system of dowry society; rather it is the boy who pays it. At times it was just 5 rupees or 10 rupees. Now it has increased 100 to 200 rupees. The father of the boy gives it to the father of the girl. The system of divorce of is not same as you think. The man always talks to his former wife. Their point is that if we are not compatible, then we must get separated. The woman does that by returning the iron bangles to the man and leaving him. It is very flexible. It is not that family will sit and try to forge them together. It’s just between the man and the woman.
• It means the girl can decide herself?    
Yes, there are mainly two to three types of marriages. They have their own selection procedure. A pair selects themselves in the umbrella festival. They carry the selection over there. It is the same umbrella that you see there. The boy picks up the umbrella and the sing the songs throughout the night, by morning they choose each other. The girl goes to the house with the boy or vice-versa. They speak to the villagers by saying I am going home, and he is my choice.
• Who goes to whose house? Does the boy goes to the girl’s house or is it other way round?
Both happen, here what we see the most is that the boy goes with the girl. There is a reason for it because no property is involved in it. Go anywhere there is poverty. Both of them have to work and build their own home, there is no division of property among brothers and so no chance of quarrel. Even if someone has more goats, there is no fight over that. The boy does not even care about the goats and that he has to take it. The quarrel over goats I have seen two to three times in last 35 years.
• It means that the trend of greed for money is not here in prominence? 
Their need is also limited. The man in the world thinks of how much he is earning and inside the forest that what he is eating. The Sabars in the forest does not think about money and work. They were always watched with suspicion so they ate whatever the forest provides them like wild potatoes. There are lots of creepers in the forest under which the big wild potatoes grow. They call it ‘baw’ in Sabar language.
• So in many respect the Sabar society is better than the mainstream society.
Yes, but everything is not right, like liquor. As money is increasing so does the influence of liquor and the government has a role in it. The government is providing license in every Panchayat and giving permission to open liquor shop in every village.
• So you want to say that it was not there before?
Earlier it was not available in such a quantity and in such a proximity.
• So they must be drinking Mahua?
Yes, but there is another alcohol of which I was talking about, drinking Mahua would have been better. Right now, they are making Chullu with the help of a furnace. Chullu which is full of water could be made without license. Mahua and Handia are good for health and are seasonal. At present I don’t have those.
• Are you going to demand this to the government along with relief materials?
Yes. This is what we want. We are also going to give a presentation to the C.M., with some short term and long term demands. 
• What are your suggestions?
The amount of the relief should be doubled, with only 2 kg of rice and 2 kg of flour how will they sustain. Please look at the size of the family and decide about the amount. 
• What’s the situation now?
Right now there is always shortage of food, sometimes they get to eat sometimes they starve. Now the Anganwadis are also closed due to the pandemic. Rice and potatoes are given once in a month. It lasts hardly for 4 to 5 days. This amount is simply not enough. In the long term, we have achieved model success. We have showed it to the collector. The kitchen garden that we were building in front of every Anganwadi centre included a group who are provided with seeds. They used to cultivate vegetables which in return were giving nutrition to their children. With the last six months report, the problem of malnutrition disappeared.
• And what about you?
I am more than 60 years old now. In 10th November 1983 I joined the organisation. My date of birth is 9th March 1960.
• What is your qualification?
I am a graduate, and also did lot of other courses. I also have diploma in Rural Development from NIRD Hyderabad. I did lot of courses in which I was interested. It was from my own interest that I work for this community. I had a Guru who inspired me, he was my father-in-law. He said to me that something should be done for them.
• Were you already married by then?
No. Four years after I married my childhood friend. A man like me is difficult for marriage, as there no good food available, no proper place to live, in a whole no security. We got married in 1993 and we had a daughter in 1995. She is now working in a college.
[Prashant Rakshit’s daughter, Sabari Rakshit is 25 years old.  She was named Sabari by Mahasweta Debi.] The committee looks after computer work, letter writing and documentation.
• Where did you live after marriage?
We lived in the village. At that time there was no electricity. Our child also grew here. Later she was moved to the town because she had a disease, so we had to shift to the town too. When our daughter gets married, both of us will go back to the village. This is our dream. This society which has given us so much, we want to give it back as much as possible.
• How many people were you able to reach with the relief materials?
We have provided relief materials to 1163 families so far. Then in that packet we are giving 25 kg of rice, 5 kg of lentils, 10 kg of potatoes, 2  liters of mustard oil,1 kg of salt and spices comprising of turmeric and cumin powder. We have also provided them onions, 3 soaps and a packet of detergent.
From 1st April, we along with Azim Premji Philanthropic Initiative (APPI) started a project for three years The work about passing on mantle of this organisation to the next generation, young boys and girls has to handle the administration of this organisation within next three years.
• What will they help you with?
We have said that there is a deficiency in our organisation. The accounts are not maintained in the computer properly. As we were unable to do data entry properly, our boy in the office was also unable to do that. He went to Delhi for the training. Now all the accounts will be maintained by that Sabar boy. Our governing body now has 7 members and only is a woman. We are planning it to make it 3. Nobody above the age of 50 will remain the member of the governing body as we have to run it for another fifty years.
These young people are into distributing relief too. With their phone Meghnath Sabar holds the meeting. There are also Ratnabali Sabar, Debanjan Sabar, Hemant Sabar and Vishnu. Ratnabali is a girl who is in B.A. final year now. She will become the President of the Governing Board. Mahasweta Devi was our working president from 1983 to 2016. She died in 2016. She use to come here regularly, use to stay for 15 to 16 days. Everyone use to call her ‘Maa’, ‘Sabarer Maa’.
• Is there any infighting regarding the Presidency of the Governing Board?
No, it never occurred. This is also because our institution doesn’t have much property and funds with it. Everyone is working from their respective home for 50 years. If property was increased in course of time, fund could have become a reason of quarrelling.
• What is APPI giving you?
They are paying the salary of the staff. We have 11 staffs and 3 fellows. It is not just APPI but also there is Tata Trust. Mayank has been working with us for three years on behalf of Tata Trust. The salary of the eight teachers will be paid by Tata Trust.
[ Mayank Sinha is an alumnus of Tata Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. He started TANDA (Towards Advocacy Networking and Development Action), a field action project under the Centre for Criminology and Justice in 2011. Today he is the founder of the organisation- National Alliance for Nomadic and Semi- Nomadic Tribe. Through Tata Trust he started working in Purulia in 2019. Today there are five organisations supporting this work in different ways. They are TANDA, TISS, Tata Trust, APPI and Praxis]
• What will you do with the staff? Who are these 11 people?
These are 11 Sabars. We have eight blocks, in three years we want membership of every Sabar. We are keeping this work for three years but our target is to complete it within one year. Then all Sabars will be receiving the grants. Our target is to bring money so that we can cultivate here which will stop the migration and only then their children will get educated. They migrate in every 3 or 6 months which obviously hampers the child’s education. In all these years we have understood that we need to work with the government and it is only the state machinery that is capable of doing these things.
• What do you think of corona virus pandemic and its effects?
We ordered a Handycam but now we understand that we cannot buy it soon. Those who are middle class have suffered financially. Actually everyone has due to this pandemic. So we are thinking that in meetings and seminars organised by Wipro, which is a big company we can put our staff to exhibit laptop covers, file folders or pen holders or any handicrafts made according to their need with the help of palm, grass or by using any other natural materials. We will take this matter to APPI. 

• We acknowledge the contribution of the interviewer, Abhishek Kumar Tiwari, editor - ' The Sabha ' for his kind permission to publish this interview.